Pilgrimage in Armenia and Anatolia, interview with Kaan Soyak

[Yavuz Baydar]

Good evening. Tensions have characterized Turkish Armenian relations after the Cold War era. The normalization of the political relations has been impossible. This current situation could be explained with regard to the tragic events of the WWI. History proved to be an obstacle for the development for a Turkish Armenian dialogue. Tonight, we won’t focus on the official approach to bilateral relations, but voice the concerns, the hopes carried by civil initiative with Mr Kaan Soyak, co-chairman of the Turkish Armenian Business Development Council. Good evening Mr Soyak.

[Kaan Soyak] Good evening

[Yavuz Baydar] You can ask questions by phone, fax or e-mail. Here are the subjects that we are going to deal with:

– Couldn’t it be possible to overcome difficulties in Turkish Armenian relations?

– What will be the regional impact of the normalization of the Turkish Armenian relations?

– In which area can the civil society be efficient? What can be the contribution of the municipalities?

Mr Soyak, you have just arrived from Kars. 150 Armenian Americans came from the US, they have traveled across Anatolia, and yesterday took a flight from Kars to Yerevan. Turkish media has very well covered the trip. Has the TABDC brought these tourists to Turkey?

[Kaan Soyak] Everything began 2,5 years ago. Until now, some American Armenians used to come to Turkey. Those who have spent many years in Turkey before moving to the States used to come. Those who have never been in touch with Turkey weren’t used to come to Turkey. It took nearly 2 years for the TABDC and the Diocese of the Armenian Church of America to organize this trip.

[Yavuz Baydar] Why was this event so important for you?

[Kaan Soyak] The Diaspora is very important for the future of the Turkish Armenian dialogue. Many people in Turkey pay great attention to relations between the Diaspora and Turkey. The Diocese of the Armenian Church in America has, in close cooperation with the TABDC, organized this pilgrimage with the invitation of the Patriarch of Istanbul.

[Yavuz Baydar] Is this the beginning of a new wave?

[Kaan Soyak] It was the first pilgrimage organized by an institution, namely the Diocese of the Armenian Church in America.

[Yavuz Baydar] How old were the pilgrims?

[Kaan Soyak] Mostly above 55.

[Yavuz Baydar] Can you tell us what happened during the trip? What did they see? What was the reaction of the local population?

[Kaan Soyak] The first day, there was some tension, they were stressed. 98% of the pilgrims have been to Turkey for the first time and with many prejudices. And so many things that were remaining were unknown. But the trip was perfect, especially the trip in East and South East Anatolia, we have had very close contacts with local population, and our friends appreciated local hospitality very much.

[Yavuz Baydar] You said that there have been close contacts with local population. What was their reaction? Have the pilgrims been considered as tourists, what was the degree of proximity between them?

[Kaan Soyak] I have been asked very often at different places: “where are the tourists?” Especially, those who are fluent in Turkish “disappeared” among local population. You should have seen how emotional these moments were! They have been talking for hours with villagers sitting in the gardens. A person picked up some soil to put it on the grave of his father. You should have seen, there was so much emotion.

[Yavuz Baydar] What was important for them?

[Kaan Soyak] For these Armenians from the Diaspora, the most important thing was to go and see the birthplace of their fathers, the villages and cities where their parents used to live. All of those emotional moments have been very meaningful.

[Yavuz Baydar] Has it been difficult for them to leave Turkey? Were they sad?

[Kaan Soyak] Some had tears in their eyes and promised us to come back to Turkey.

[Yavuz Baydar] How did they use to view Turkey, what were their opinions about the Turkish state? Politically speaking, were there some differences among those who have taken part in this pilgrimage?

[Kaan Soyak] It was very interesting. Some of them have been very active in Armenian associations, it was their first visit to Turkey, some of them have been involved in some radical associations, and they came with many prejudices. But at the end, before leaving, they all said how happy they were to have come to Turkey.

[Yavuz Baydar] Did they deliver any message? What did they say to the people they met?

[Kaan Soyak] The Turkish hospitality impressed them a lot. I am very grateful to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to the Ministry of Interior, to the municipalities, to the Security Department, to the regional Chambers of Commerce for their help. I would like to thank especially the representatives of the Security Department in Kars. Our friends of the Diaspora have been very satisfied.

[Yavuz Baydar] How can you explain that regional, national, international institutions have been working hand in hand, in close cooperation, during this pilgrimage?

[Kaan Soyak] It has been a real teamwork.

[Yavuz Baydar] Why? Why did the official institutions give their support to you? Is it the beginning of a new era?

[Kaan Soyak] I think that everything is in our hands. It can be the beginning of a new era. These people, they all came here. All that they want is the acknowledgment of an Armenian past in Anatolia, that their historical monuments are protected, that we should save our history together.

[Yavuz Baydar] Do they consider themselves as part of the Ottoman history?

[Kaan Soyak] Definetely, yes.

***

Questions 1: What could be the area of cooperation with the Armenians who came from the US? What has been the economic gain of this pilgrimage for Turkey?

[Kaan Soyak] In 10 days nearly 1 million USD has been spent. And this tour is not cheap; the airplane tickets were also very expensive. 150 tourists have spent 1 million USD in 10 days. The development of tourism is very important for East and South East Anatolia regions. And it’s highly difficult to make US tourists come to this region. Meanwhile, most of the historical monuments in this region belong to Armenians. We have a great opportunity; it is not that difficult to organize pilgrimages and to attract these tourists in the area. There are 6,5 millions Armenians living in Diaspora, and they all want to come and see Van, Ahtamar, Ani. There is a great opportunity for Turkey. I closed my eyes while listening to two people talking. It was really impossible to distinguish who was from the region, and who was Armenian! There were some businessmen in the group; they have tried to get some information on the economic situation of the region. There is an important business potential between Anatolia, the Diaspora, and Armenia.

[Yavuz Baydar] And especially in tourism?

[Kaan Soyak] In tourism as well as in other sectors. The Anatolian businessmen can try to sell their products with the help of Armenians who are fluent in Turkish.

Question 2: Will it be possible to change Turkey’s official position?

[Kaan Soyak] The official position depends on several criteria; it depends on the evolution of the situation in Nagarno-Karabagh. I can’t comment on Turkey’s official stance. We just try to contribute to improve Turkish Armenian relations, and to improve Turkey’s relations with the Diaspora.

Ahmet Ertegün from New York

[Yavuz Baydar] We know that you are involved in the activities of the TABDC. According to you, what should be done to enhance regional stability and foster cooperation?

[Ahmet Ertegün] We are trying to establish a dialogue with American Armenians. There are sensitive issues between Turks and Armenians, between Turkey, France, and the US. We don’t know very much about what happened 100 years ago, we believe in different thesis and go on fighting. We have to end these fights.

[Yavuz Baydar] This organization took place after a dinner you have hosted and to which representatives of the Armenian Diaspora took part. What should be done between Armenian and Turkish business circles?

[Ahmet Ertegün] This Armenian lobby is much more powerful than we think usually, and it is hostile to Turkey. There is no obstacle for us to become friends. Historians should be those who should deal with historical matters, a commission of historians should be set up. Business is so important, for Turkey the most important matter is to reconcile itself with its neighbors.

[Yavuz Baydar] Thank you Mr Ertegün.

Mr. Soyak, some questions that I have received insist on the financial aspect. Does the TABDC receive any financial support?

[Kaan Soyak] The lack of financial support is our biggest problem. We all work as volunteers, Sule Kiliçarslan, our Turkey coordinator, Burcu Gültekin , our Europe coordinator, as well as Verkin, Noyan, Galip, myself and many others work as volunteers. We would have been much more powerful if we were financially supported.

[Yavuz Baydar] Why this voluntary service?

[Kaan Soyak] My own profession has no relation with tourism. There was nobody else to assume responsibilities and to take initiatives in this field. In the era of Petrossian we intend to do business. I am personally a businessman. After Kocharian came into power, we have been involved in different fields.

[Yavuz Baydar] But we don’t work by force?

[Kaan Soyak] Of course, not! I believe in what I do, I am convinced that these activities are very useful, for Turkey, the East and South East regions, as well as for Armenia. It is highly important to build close relations with the Diaspora.

Question 3: I would like to show my gratitude to Mr. Soyak. Whatever might be the purpose, to bring together two populations that had been living together throughout history is really appreciable. We are very much upset by the actions taken by the Armenian lobby in view of the recognition of the genocide by many parliaments; we would like to know how the TABDC and Armenians, as a whole, consider those initiatives.

[Kaan Soyak] I, as every Turkish citizen, am very much worried about the resolutions for the recognition of the Armenian genocide. I don’t believe that they are of any help to anybody. But there is no way to prevent the adoption of these resolutions. This Armenian lobby is very actively working in order to convince President Bush. But they represent only 20% of the Diaspora, 80% represents the silent majority. It is highly important to establish strong relations with this silent majority for the sake of the future of Turkish Armenian relations.

Question 4: I was born in the US, I have met many Armenians. I think that you are too optimistic, what you say doesn’t reflect the reality. I think that even those who come to Turkey have very bad intentions: it reminds me of a report I watch on PBS about a lady who has been traveling to Anatolia, she has been filming everything secretly and the comments of the pictures were so aggressive.

[Kaan Soyak] There are Armenians who are very hostile towards Turkey. Cooperation with them is difficult. We have to find a common ground: it is compulsory to initiate a new wave. This pilgrimage has been in a way the very first step.

Question 5: There are officially 700 000 Azeri refugees. Is it possible to work for a Turkish Armenian rapprochement in spite of Azerbaijan?

[Kaan Soyak] It is very important for Armenia and Azerbaijan to reach an agreement. We want to contribute to the resolution of conflicts in the region. We don’t think that Turkey has been very active in the negotiation process. We want Turkey to use all the tools and opportunities to contribute to peace and to the search for solutions in favor of Turkish interests in the region.

Question 6: Goodwill seems essential to improve Turkish Armenian relations. Don’t you think that the Diaspora has to show some goodwill as well? Haven’t you ever thought of sending messages to the Armenians?

[Kaan Soyak] Yes, of course. The TABDC is a joint Turkish Armenian institution, the Armenian co-chairman Mr. Arsen Ghazarian, is the chairman of the Association of Manufacturers’ and Businessmen in Armenia. He holds frequent press conferences, and stresses the importance of the economic approach, and criticizes and underlines what is wrong in Armenian politics. As Turkish and Armenian businessmen, we are very well aware of the standard of life of the Armenian population.

Hrant Dink, chief editor of the Agos newspaper

Does the TABDC plan to organize artistic and cultural events to foster bilateral relations?

[Kaan Soyak] The TABDC has been very active in the area of arts and culture since the very beginning. We have organized the concert of Djivan Gasparian in Istanbul, in October the Armenians Folk Dancers made a performance in Istanbul. We have invited Nune to Turkey. In October, we will organize The Lalezar and the Ankara String Quartet concerts in Yerevan. We are also in touch with Raffi Cavoukian; we would like him to prepare a special song for Turkish and Armenian children.

[Yavuz Baydar] Krikor Balci is with us from the US. Krikor Balci is an Anatolian Armenian. Mr. Balci, according to you, what can be the trade volume between Turkey and Armenia?

[Krikor Balci] It is very difficult to give an assessment; the current bilateral trade volume is very low. The potential is very important. I am talking not only about the bilateral trade but also about the prospects for international trade.

[Yavuz Baydar] Can the Armenian Diaspora have a positive impact on the Turkish – US economic relations?

[Krikor Balci] It is the greatest potential that I can see. It could be possible to reach a free trade agreement on textile between Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and the US. The US has already signed a similar agreement with Israel, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority to support the peace process in the Middle East. It will give a strong incentive for joint production and export facilities to the US.

Question 7: I have heard that TABDC intends to develop its lobbying activities worldwide and plans to open offices in New York, Brussels and Moscow. Have you already started implementing these projects?

[Kaan Soyak] It is such a difficult target. We plan to inaugurate the Turkish Armenian Business Council in New York in late September. The preparatory work for the establishment of a European office based in Paris or in Brussels is going to be carried on in 2002. The Moscow office is also among our priorities.

Question 8: Is it realistic to talk about a Turkish Armenian lobby while excluding and isolating Azerbaijan?

[Kaan Soyak] We do not intend to exclude Azerbaijan. Our aim is to foster cooperation between Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkey, to enhance cooperation in the whole Caucasian area. We would rather try to contribute to peace instead of waiting the resolution of political problems to act.

The mayor of Kars, Mr. Naif Alibeyoglu

[Yavuz Baydar] Mr. Alibeyoglu, you have hosted our Armenian guests in your town. The group went to Yerevan from Kars.

[Naif Alibeyoglu] We are very much interested in cooperation with the Armenian Diaspora and our Armenian neighbors; I would like to know the field of cooperation. The mutual understanding is the condition for peace in the region. All that we want is the opening of the border and the build-up of close relations with our neighbor.

[Kaan Soyak] I am very grateful to Mr. Alibeyoglu. Our Armenian guests have been very much impressed by his warm hospitality. We plan to organize a regional development conference in Kars with the participation of businessmen from the Diaspora. We see a great potential in tourism; programs can include visits to Ahtamar, Kars, Ani and Yerevan. Each Armenian would like to see these places at least once in his life.

Question 9: I run a tourism agency in Erzurum. I have already worked with similar groups. What should be done to ensure the continuity of those visits and to make the number of groups visiting Anatolia increase?

[Kaan Soyak] Good question. We would like to make an inventory of Armenian monuments in Anatolia, I would like to make a call to cities and villages to prepare a list of churches, houses that have belonged to Armenians, I will send them to the Armenian Church in America. Local populations can also host tourists, we should think of the training of local guides and to raise awareness of this historical legacy among local population. The flow of tourists to Anatolia will increase consequently. We have received an excellent proposal from the municipality of Gaziantep. I would like to congratulate Ayse , member of the municipal council, whom we have been working with. We are thinking of the establishment of a regional tourism agency in the South East. The general purpose is to strengthen the links with the Diaspora.

News Source:  CNN TURK – 14.06.2001

14.06.2001